Unseasoned: Dara McDevitt
What happens when an outdoor dream job is no longer your dream?
Welcome to the December Unseasoned interview!
Happy end of the year! December marks the final issue in the Unseasoned series. Thank you for your support throughout 2023 and my gratitude to everyone who offered to share their story. I loved this season of the Emerald Lens newsletter and will have an update about where we’re headed in 2024 soon! Subscriptions will be paused for now, an extra thank you to everyone who helped keep this newsletter paywall free this year.
Unseasoned is a series interviewing folks who leave behind outdoor seasonal gigs for 9-5s, entrepreneurship, or other year-round work. You can read more about the premise here.
This month, our interviewee is Dara McDevitt. Dara talks about how an injury rerouted her career path, why compromise is part of everything (especially work), and how your favorite outdoor products are visioned and made.
As always, I’d love to hear what you thought of this interview. When have you compromised throughout your career? What has that compromise given you and what has it taken away? Either reply here or find me on IG: @emeraldlafortune
-Emerald
PS: My writing is featured in the recently published “Catch of a Lifetime” anthology including Joan Wulff, Katie Cahn, Brittany Howard, David James Duncan, and others. Snag a copy here.
PPS: Thanks to everyone who joined me at America Outdoors earlier this month for a live presentation of Unseasoned: Why Great Guides and Seasonal Staff Leave.
Note: This interview may be cut off by some email programs. Click the three-dot icon to see the full interview (it’s still available to all subscribers, free included).
THE INTERVIEW
NAME: Dara McDevitt
LOCATION: Bozeman, MT
CURRENT ROLE(S): Product Line Manager - Wild Rye
SOCIAL
EMERALD: Tell me about a great “day in the life” in one of your past outdoor seasonal roles.
DARA: The day-to-day was highly variable at all my seasonal roles. When I worked for Bear Management, in Yellowstone National Park, days included doing backcountry field surveys, maintenance tasks (posting signs etc), education, and managing traffic and mitigating visitor / bear interactions at roadside “bear jams”.
A particularly memorable time, there was a bison carcass that had probably been frozen in the river, and at some point in spring thaw, it floated downstream. It was lodged on the opposite side of the river where there is a viewpoint with a big boardwalk, a place where people go to look at this series of rapids called the Le Hardy Rapids. And so the carcass was right across from this viewpoint and there ended up being a bunch of bears on it for a couple of days. It was super cool because when you work for bear management, a big part of what you are doing is visitor education. You manage the scene to make sure that the bear is safe and the people are safe. It is really unique to have a setting that was such a good viewing opportunity that was super safe for the bear and super safe for the people. The river was really wide at that point and the bear was so focused on the carcass.
So there were just these couple days where we got to hang out on this carcass and do tons of cool visitor education about grizzly bears, about the ecosystem, about predation. That really stuck out as a cool experience where you did a lot of the parts of the job, which is people control, animal control, but also everybody got to thrive together.
EMERALD: What was the hardest part of outdoor seasonal work for you?
DARA: The hardest part of outdoor seasonal work… there are two things that come to mind. One thing is just the constant, always looking for a new job piece. I will also say that one of my biggest hard things with seasonal jobs was navigating the USA jobs website. There are all these need-to-know things about how to make sure you make the cert and get on the list. That was a big learning curve for me. And I also struggled with the rounding yourself up to make sure that you get on the list so that you can have the conversation. Even if you knew the manager hiring, you had to get past this computer part. And I hated over-exaggerating what I thought my qualifications were. Even though it was a computer program that was reading your answers, it felt like being dishonest. So I do think that that was a big source of stress for me when I was in the seasonal world. I think people also figure it out, and I didn't stick around long enough to really dial that in ever.
EMERALD: What were you most worried about when leaving seasonal work? Did those fears actualize?
DARA: It felt like outdoor jobs were a part of who I was and a defining personal characteristic. I definitely was attached to that persona. I had also never had an inside job before and it felt like that was something super unappealing at the time.
I remember thinking, I never want to be at a desk nine to five. I don't ever want to have a computer be the main part of my job. That was really stigmatized by myself and probably my community to some degree as well. Weirdly, a bit of that for me was tied to the fact that I get migraines and I used to get them when I was a kid when I watched TV for too long. Screen lights are something that can either trigger or aggravate me if I'm having a migraine. So, I was super concerned about getting more headaches if I was at a computer all the time. That did not actualize, which has been very cool. And I don't feel like any of the fears I had about not spending enough time outside, not having the outdoors be part of my life or who I am, were real. All of the fears were very early twenties, “Who am I?” fears. The first full-time inside job I got turned out to be my favorite job I had had to date, at the time, which I wasn't expecting.
EMERALD: How do you describe your current job?
DARA: I'm a product line manager and I work predominantly in the outdoor space for outdoor brands. And I really, really like my current job. The job that I do, I think I'm well suited for. It leverages and uses a lot of skills that I picked up during my seasonal work that I wouldn't have expected. And it combines it with these other parts of my brain that are more analytical. I get to use a lot of different parts of my brain.
A product line manager is a role on a product creation team. A product creation team is made up of a product line managers, product developers, and product designers. And so some organizations will call that the triad or the triangle, but what that means is those three departments, management, design, and development work together to take a product from an idea, iterate a design, and then iterate how to take that to production and scale it at mass.
My job as a product line manager is to balance the business initiatives from the brand and the creative initiatives in the brand. I ask, “What are the right opportunities, what things should make, and why we should make them?”
I outline these opportunities into one-page product briefs that identify the who, and why of each product. And I pass those off to the designer. And so that includes information about who would use this, what they would do with it, why they would like it, what features and benefits are important for them, what types of price ranges they would use or they would prefer to pay or be willing to pay. I give that information to the design team and the development team so that they can start to make the idea that's an opportunity come to real life. I do a lot of negotiating with different departments to try to make decisions that accomplish common goals.
EMERALD: How did you end up in your current role?
DARA: A big part of my career path was that I worked for the Park Service seasonally, and then right when I was finishing college, I had another field job lined up. But then I broke my foot and couldn't do the field job I had been planning to do. And so the first job that I got offered after that was at Mystery Ranch Backpacks as a sewing production member. I learned how to sew backpacks and learned what product creation cycles were like. I sewed backpacks for Mystery Ranch for a year in Bozeman. And from there I went on to do more production sewing. I moved back to Missoula and worked for Goertzen Adventure Equipment, which is a small brand that does leather and canvas work. I got to continue sewing and building the product, which is something that I really liked doing. I also got to be part of other aspects of the business outside of just the making, which I loved.
After doing that for a few years, I wanted to do more, and learn more and was trying to figure out the right next step. I was applying for a lot of jobs to try to see if I could make the next step up by getting a new job. I applied for jobs for almost a year. I didn't get any offers that were striking the right balance of something where I would be learning new things, at least getting paid the same that I was making, or being in Missoula still.
And so I was like, okay, I've tried this for a while. I think I'm going to look at the avenue of going back to school. And I ended up going back to get my Masters at the University of Oregon. I did a Masters in Sports Product Management that's based in Portland. So I moved to Portland, Oregon for a year and a half and spent time just learning the whole product creation system in more depth and at a larger scale. I had never really paid attention to things like branding or marketing. In fact, I really didn't like the business side. I only wanted to be on the nitty gritty making side of things. And actually, when I learned those business aspects, it just lit up my brain a lot more than I was expecting it to.
So the role that I ended up landing in was a surprise to me just because it incorporated more business, more working with marketing and brand. And initially, those were departments I wasn't thinking I had any interest in even being near. I learned during school that I was interested in product line management.
When I left school, I eventually got a job at Oboz Footwear as a product line manager. I got that position through networking opportunities that came up to me through my grad school program as well as a couple of friend networking conversations. And then after being there for a few years, I moved into a new role, also as a product line manager for apparel and accessories at Wild Rye.
So the summary is I got hurt. The random first job that I got offered was at Mystery Ranch Backpacks. I thought I was either going to be a park ranger for the rest of my life or that I was going to go into medicine. But that job kind of rerouted me in a really significant way.
EMERALD: Many folks who are thinking about transitioning out of seasonal work look to continued schooling as a way to facilitate that shift. What's one real benefit you received from your Masters and then conversely, one thing you think folks should watch out for when looking at schools?
DARA: I had a really positive experience going back to school. Two big benefits stuck out for me. The first is that when you're a student, it's sort of this permission slip to ask anybody to get coffee or have a conversation to learn about what they're doing. I was so surprised at how powerful it was to be able to just chat with people by being like, ‘Hey, I'm a student. I'm looking to learn more about these types of roles. Would you be willing to meet up with me?’ And I had every single person that I asked to talk with me say yes. I was blown away. So I think that was a really cool opportunity to be in a learning mindset about the community of people around you.
The other benefit of going back to school that was super helpful for me was learning to think outside of my own box. I had been living primarily in small towns in the Mountain West. Spending a year and a half in Portland and around not just different people but a lot of different businesses was really helpful. It forced me to think more globally as opposed to regionally or nationally. Portland is sort of the epicenter of sporting brands, and it can be for outdoors brands too. So there was a way of thinking globally that wasn't how I approached my work. That was a really cool exercise for my brain to expand so much.
I think I just got exposed to people and ideas that I wouldn't have otherwise. And all of that also led me to be able to come back and afford to live in the places that I wanted to live, which was something I was not set up to do before that.
As for things to look out for, first is obviously the financial piece of it. School is expensive. I came out of my program with six figures worth of student debt. With that in mind, I had been really calculated in measuring before I went into it knowing what it was going to cost me and what I might expect to make on the other end. I was super scared about the finance piece of it before going in. But, it has worked out really well for me and I would recommend it to myself again.
The second part is managing expectations. Before I went into my program, I was able to get the administration to put me in touch with several past students. I think I talked to three people who had done the program. They were all incredible resources that were really open and honest about the good, the bad, and the ugly, all aspects of what to expect.
I think understanding from those people's experiences what the pros and the cons of the program were and going in and knowing what those were, just set me up for success of identifying early what were places that I might need to supplementally find resources to learn from.
I think that there were people who came into my program having only chatted with the people within the administration, and I think some of them thought that what they were purchasing was a quick ticket to success. And it's just more complicated than that. Of course, you have to generally work hard to make opportunities for yourself mostly just because you're your own best advocate. I feel like the conversations that I had with the other students set me up to have really clear expectations of what the strengths and weaknesses of the program were going to be. And I knew that going as opposed to feeling like I found it out halfway through or something like that, my expectations weren't met.
EMERALD: What do you wish more people knew about the behind-the-scenes of their favorite outdoor gear and apparel?
DARA: I think that the thing that I want people to know more than anything is that doing anything in life involves compromises and negotiation. And that's a hundred percent true when you're making apparel or shoes. So say I'm trying to make a jacket and I want the nicest material and I want five pockets, and I want it to also be really breathable and I want it to be a material that reduces the negative impacts on human health and the environment and prioritizes sustainability. You can make anything. It just might not cost what you want it to. And so there is just always this really big negotiation.
I think the biggest takeaway is just that every piece of gear is a negotiation between a lot of different parties and working out where they land is a wild process.
EMERALD: Are your relationships different now that you are in a year-round role? If yes, how so?
DARA: I think that the relationship that is most different was probably with myself more than friends and family. The regularity of an office job did big things for stability in my life. I did not realize the importance of that stability for me until I had it. For example, a regular sleep routine is actually super important for me. I think back to having worked four tens (four days of ten-hour days), or backcountry trail crew jobs where you're working 10-hour days for eight days in a row. The more regular sleep schedule I found in fulltime work was a benefit I wasn't expecting that really improved my relationship with myself.
When you are doing field work and you're super tired and then your weekend comes, there are just a lot of times when you don't have the energy to do the fun things that you would choose to do because you're tired from the things that you did for work.
I found that working 9-5 I was able to do all of the things that I wanted to do on my weekends or after and before work. It was empowering to have the energy to do the things that I wanted to do. It made me so happy.
EMERALD: How did moving from seasonal work to a year-round opportunity change your financial situation?
DARA: I am not sure I saw a direct correlation with financial stability from going seasonal to going full-time employment. I did see a really big shift when I went back to grad school in my financial stability. Coming out of grad school, I have had financial stability that… I just don't think I realized that that felt as unstable as it did until after I was making more income.
I remember when I was trying to get jobs and maybe dodge going back to school, I felt like the skill sets that I had at that moment were not super marketable. And then as soon as I got into school and through school, people just raved about how incredible the experience I had from doing my sewing production and outdoor jobs.
As soon as I had this Master's Degree that really focused on the business elements of making things, people were like, ‘Wow, you have the business elements and the boots-on-the-ground approach!’ So weirdly, I had my experiences validated retroactively from having a new skill set that sat on top of my foundational ones. That was a huge surprise to me and also validating. My more boots-on-the-ground jobs did actually help contribute to the success that I've had in my recent career.
EMERALD: What does “dream job” mean to you? Has this definition changed since you were 22?
DARA: I think that I spend a lot of time thinking about compromise and the compromise that you can expect to make throughout life. I think that work is a really good example of a place where there are trade-offs. You might be willing to get paid a little bit less to live in a place that you really want to live or might be willing to work a job that involves more stress because you also really love it. So the consideration of whether the trade-offs are worth it for me is how I kind of think about a job structure more than I think about it being a dream job.
It's sort of a non-romantic, pragmatic response, but I think that that really helps me. I think of it as a transactional exchange of goods and services. I give you my time, you pay me money. Do I get paid enough to feel financially able to live where I want to live or live where I am living? And is it an emotionally stable environment for me to spend most of my week, 40 hours a week, or whatever your number is? Do I have enough flexibility and autonomy within that to make the rest of my life work?
When life comes calling to have that flexibility and autonomy as needed is just super, super important for me. I've had friends and family in the hospital recently, and having the level of autonomy to be able to work remotely to go and spend time with them in the place that they are is invaluable. I think I won't go through another job interview process without asking that specific question of, ‘Here's a recent example in my life. What is your policy? Or how are you able to offer flexibility for things when people have friends and family in the hospital?’
I think the dream job for me is having people around me that I like working with, having autonomy and flexibility in my life, and then making enough money to be able to afford to live where I live or where I want to live.
EMERALD: If someone in outdoor seasonal work is interested in shifting out, what would you suggest they consider? Why?
DARA: Working 9 - 5 indoors is a different muscle. Being in shape to be an office person is really different than being in shape to work an eight-day trip. I think just make sure you give yourself enough time to get in shape before you decide if it works or doesn't work for you.
I think I have always benefited from trying new things. And if it's something that you're genuinely interested in… I'm a big advocate of trying it.
I think that kind of lines up with the previous thing I was saying about my past experiences all of a sudden had a lot of value and were connected to each other, even though I felt like I had all these random jobs. I drove an ambulance for a summer, then I worked in bear management, and then I was doing medical work for the Park Service. It felt disconnected, but now all of a sudden my experiences do feel very connected. I always thought the jobs I was going to do were interesting. And then they were always interesting and they have all connected to benefit me in my current place. And so I think that if you're just genuinely interested in something, it's worth trying for now.
EMERALD: Imagine you’re eighty years old, retired, living your best life. In three-five sentences, describe the scene.
DARA: I am hoping I have a hundred percent autonomy over my time. I'm hoping that my body is still able to move and take me places and that I get to go outside places. And yeah… I hope I live next door to my sister.
Past Non-Seasonal Roles:
Product Line Manager, Oboz Footwear
Infectious Disease Branch Task Force Leader, Missoula City - County Health Department
Production Manager, Goertzen Adventure Equipment
Production Sewer, Mystery Ranch Backpacks
Past Seasonal Roles:
Wilderness Medicine Instructor, Aerie Backcountry Medicine
Little Yosemite Backcountry Ranger Intern, (Yosemite) National Park Service
Biological Science Technician - Bear Management, (Yellowstone) National Park Service
Emergency Medical Services Coordinator, (Yellowstone) National Park Service
Education & Certifications:
M.S. Sports Product Management from the Lundquist College of Business, University of Oregon
B.S. Natural Resource Conservation, University of Montana
Emergency Medical Technician (2012-2022)
Wilderness EMT certificate (2012-2022)
CPR Instructor certificate (2014-2020)
Avalanche Level 1 (2012)
Swiftwater Rescue Technician (2012-2014)
In honor of the end of Unseasoned, Read / Watch / Listen recommendations are available to all. Thank you to everyone who supported this work throughout 2023, your subscription helped me keep the bulk of this newsletter paywall free for all!
READ
A Merry Little Meet Cute by Sierra Simone and Julie Murphy - hang tight through the first few clunky chapters of this book and you’re rewarded with a delightful, sex-positive rom.
Two of my favorite musical artists of the year, in conversation.
“I was the chill girl who always carried extra dive gear and knew where to find the leopard sharks, but I couldn’t be honest with myself—or the boy I loved.”
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WATCH
I know Love Actually is problematic and I will still watch it once per year, without fail. It’s not my fault I was imprinted during a problematic decade (looking at you, 2003).
Kacey Musgraves is my other holiday tradition.
And at a friend’s recommendation, I’m trying Polar Express this year…
—
LISTEN
The top five artists on my Spotify Wrapped were Beyonce / Noah Kahan / Bad Bunny / Bomba Estereo / Maggie Rodgers. People talk about being embarrassed about their wrapped but I stand by this list! In order to fight the algorithm, I also always keep a journal playlist of the songs that help me remember moments from the year. That’s here.
I’ll otherwise be working through all the albums I missed on these new headphones (I LOVE good headphones).