Unseasoned: Jamie Dawson

What happens when an outdoor dream job is no longer your dream?

Welcome to the October Unseasoned interview!

Unseasoned is a series interviewing folks who leave behind outdoor seasonal gigs for 9-5s, entrepreneurship, or other year-round work. You can read more about the premise here.

This month, our interviewee is Jamie Dawson, a National Park Service Interpretive Ranger turned Conservation Director. Jamie talks about her best days on the job as a ranger, trading in the uniform for a chance to have a greater impact on policy and conservation, her first purchase after securing a year-round job (I’m a Vitamix fan too, Jamie), and the learning curve of making friends outside seasonal work.

As always, I’d love to hear what you thought of this interview. Did you have to re-learn how to make friends when you moved out of seasonal work? Either reply here or find me on IG: @emeraldlafortune

-Emerald

PS: I’ll be at America Outdoors in Phoenix this December giving a talk based on this newsletter series. Outfitters, I hope to see you there!

PPS: My writing is featured in the upcoming “Catch of a Lifetime” anthology including Joan Wulff, Katie Cahn, Brittany Howard, David James Duncan, and others. Snag a copy here.

Note: This interview may be cut off by some email programs. Click the three dot icon to see the full interview (it’s still available to all subscribers, free included).

THE INTERVIEW

NAME: Jamie Dawson

LOCATION: Enterprise, OR

CURRENT ROLE: Conservation Director - Greater Hells Canyon Council

“I willingly made that sacrifice of a cool, really exciting job. What I really wanted was to be close to my partner and still live in a place that I really wanted to live in. But I realized that doesn't necessarily have to be inside a National Park.”

EMERALD: Tell me about a great “day in the life” in one of your past outdoor seasonal roles.

JAMIE DAWSON: Park Ranger jobs are often amazing days. Part of my job was that once a week I would go up to the Logan Pass Visitor Center, which is at the top of the Continental Divide in the middle of the Park. It is so spectacular with huge wildflower fields and amazing mountain views. And the early part of the day would mostly be getting things set up. And then there would be intermittent, very frustrating things of adults walking towards bighorn rams with their infant in their arms, or a person trying to pet a mountain goat, or someone having a heart attack. But you get to live in the Park, so you wake up, get in the park car, drive to the visitor center, work there for eight hours, talking to people who are just like, Wow, wow, this is amazing. I can't believe you get to work here. Then you go home and then go to bed and wake up the next day and do it all over again in a different location.

EMERALD: What was the hardest part of outdoor seasonal work for you?

JAMIE: The fact that you knew that maybe it was going to run out, maybe or that the bubble would pop. I knew that if I wanted to stay in Glacier forever (which when I was working there, I really thought that I did), I knew that I was going to have to leave to go get permanent status in another government job to eventually be able to work my way back. That was hard because, so I was so attached to that place. I was like, I'm going to have to move to DC to work on the National Mall or take a job with the IRS or something weird if I want to be here forever or if I want to stay in this the Park service world. So I think always just that was looming over my head all the time was probably the hardest thing.

EMERALD: What were you most worried about when leaving seasonal work? Did those fears actualize? 

JAMIE: I felt really restless every September. I would instantly be like, Okay, time for me to pack all my shit into my sedan and go somewhere. I think I was just worried that I would be restless in my day-to-day life or not be able to be satisfied with a less transient lifestyle.

For three or four years, every fall, I felt pretty restless. But part of that ended up being that Portland, Oregon, where we were for the first 16 months of stable year-round employment, was not the best fit for me. So part of that was solved by moving towns and moving into a different also year-round job but moving to Bend, which was more of an adventurous feeling place for me. I think I'm definitely much less restless now, but there's always the fear of becoming boring or becoming complacent, getting too settled, and being less fun.

The flip side of getting to live the exciting life was also maybe one of my other worries about seasonal work. If you have a partner who is not in the Park Service, that just makes you incompatible with pretty much anybody else who's not living that same lifestyle. Tyler (Jamie’s partner) probably wasn't going to want to follow me to DC or Iowa or some random-ass place! And you have less control over where you're going to go in a way which is not ideal if you're partnered up.

EMERALD: When you were embedded in the Park, were there other people that were more permanent year-round? Did you have any examples of what that could look like? Or was it spoken about? 

JAMIE: There's a very limited number of permanent year-round jobs in parks. That's the thing that you don't know if you're just visiting. When you look around, it's probably 70 plus percent of all of the workforce people who are park employees are seasonal employees, maybe more. The large majority of Park service employees get laid off after six months. That's the contract. There are definitely a few more established park employees, but most of them are way older and have worked at 10 different parks just to get to Glacier.

EMERALD: How did you end up in your current role? 

I didn't mean to transition into nonprofits when I took my first nonprofit gig. I did an AmeriCorps Vista year in Alaska partially to get away from a supervisor at Glacier that I just did not click with at all. And partially to get competitive hiring status. After you finish an AmeriCorps year or the Peace Corps, you get this special status for 12 months that makes you competitive over other applicants. So it's easier to wade through a super competitive federal job market, and it could make it a little easier to get to a place that you really want to be in a shorter amount of time. I took an AmeriCorps Vista year job to get hiring status. It was at a little nonprofit and it was amazing. 

My partner was still in Montana and we were trying to decide where we wanted to go next. He hadn't really left Montana yet. I had a couple of different lanes that I was considering. I was in the running for a federal permanent job, with the Forest Service, which was what my plan was at that time, and I would've been living in Hood River. Then Trump put a hiring freeze on, which meant that no new permanent federal employees in any branch of the US government could be hired. And that ran the clock out on my hiring status.

I also had a nonprofit job offer in North Cascades to be the education director at an outdoor school. But this is right when Trump was shrinking national monuments, most notably in Utah, but also in Oregon. There was one in southern Oregon where the boundaries were being redrawn and it was being shrunk. So I had this offer from this very dreamy outdoor school in the North Cascades and Tyler also had a job offer there. It would've worked out fine.

But I was just generally kind of frustrated. I feel like part of being a federal employee is that when you're interacting with the public, you are paid to not have an opinion about the actions of the federal government. You're not really supposed to be talking about politics. And so I was also not necessarily willing to go back that way. Working with kids was super rewarding, but also felt like being in a little bit of a bubble. And so I was like, I kind of want to work someplace where they're in the game a little bit more.

And this was in a very different world in 2017 when the job market was super competitive. I applied for 30 different year-round jobs and I interviewed maybe 14 times, and then I finally got a fundraising job at Oregon Wild Nonprofit in Portland, partially because I had some experience in fundraising for my AmeriCorps job, and partially because they just took a chance on me and they were like, You seem like you can figure out what you don't know. That was my first year-round employment gig, and I ended up working with them for five and a half years.

“I feel like part of being a federal employee is that when you're interacting with the public, you are paid to not have an opinion about the actions of the federal government. You're not really supposed to be talking about politics. And so I was also not necessarily willing to go back that way.”

EMERALD: Then you moved into a more conservation-focused role. Why that shift?

JAMIE: It takes a very special type of person to be a hardcore fundraiser. The person who had the role I wanted at the organization was moving on to a new gig. And I was really excited about trying that out. Again, another supervisor took a chance on me and said, “You're smart, you'll figure it out.” And they just let me make a lateral move and move to Bend and start working on public lands campaigns for the protection of rivers and other landscapes in Oregon.

It was definitely a leap of faith on their part. I did not know shit about politics when I started that job. I had spent a lot of time working on landscapes that were already protected. I did not know about any of the backstories about what needs to happen to get them to become “protected”. It was a huge learning curve for me. 

EMERALD: Was your seasonal experience a help or a hindrance in moving into your current position?

JAMIE: Oh, I think very helpful. Partially because a Park Ranger card will open so many doors for you, not necessarily for any good reason. People are like, that's super interesting. 

EMERALD: People love a uniform!

JAMIE: I feel like I got almost too much credit for that job. I mean, I worked hard and it’s a useful set of skills. But I wasn't a rocket scientist or something. It's kind of babysitting adults and knowing a bunch of random facts about slugs and bugs and trees and stuff. 

But it gives you very good people management skills, being able to talk to any person from any background, being able to deal with disgruntled people, being able to talk to kids. I think I really honed the skillset in college. I basically studied how to translate complex scientific information for anybody. And then that job was the practical application of that for multiple years in a row. It was a very useful skill because it applies to whatever complicated environmental review processes that the Forest Service is doing.

“I basically studied how to translate complex scientific information for anybody. And then that job was the practical application of that for multiple years in a row. It was a very useful skill because it applies to whatever complicated environmental review processes that the Forest Service is doing.”

EMERALD: I meet many employers of seasonal staff who are struggling to retain employees, particularly highly-skilled senior staff. What changes, if any, to the workplace or outdoor industry would have extended your tenure in a seasonal role?

JAMIE: A lack of benefits is a huge issue, at least in the Park Service. I think there's a union that you can join now, but the fact that you get laid off every six months and that there's no retirement benefits and that there's no health insurance, that's a problem. 

I also think I may have just had a particularly problematic supervisor who had a reputation. I met people from other parks that he had worked at, and they were like, Oh, you work for so-and-so. Now I remember how awful it was to work for him. What is it called, for teachers, when you bump a kid out of your class who maybe isn't actually ready, but they're so terrible to deal with that you promote them to the next grade? There's a bit of that going on in the Park Service where staff just keep being promoted so that they go away to some other park. 

EMERALD: How did your family (defined broadly as any intimate familial, romantic, or platonic connections) interact with your seasonal work?

JAMIE: I think compared to the work I do now, my family was way more engaged with my Park Service job. My job now is kind of policy-wonky and hard to verbalize. Even Tyler has a hard time explaining my job to people sometimes and he's the person in my family closest to understanding it. I feel like being a Park Ranger was very approachable. It was like a job title that everyone could imagine what it looked like or something at least kind of close to it, even if they didn't quite know the details. 

EMERALD: How do you describe your current job?

JAMIE: My job is super varied, which is part of the trouble I think. Part of my work is keeping the Forest Service honest about what they're doing as they manage this public resource for everybody. And part of it is completely unrelated to the Forest Service: trying to figure out how we can best stitch together this landscape across different jurisdictions so that there's good wildlife habitat connectivity.

EMERALD: Are your relationships different now that you are in a year-round role? If yes, how so?

I think I have more community in one place. I felt like I had a really strong community when I was working in Glacier. I went back for so many years and there were enough of us. We had a good cohesive group for all of the years that I was there. But it seems like as soon as I left, everyone else kind of scattered to the four winds. 

When I was first starting a year-round job, I was like, How do I even meet people? How do I make friends? I feel like in a lot of seasonal jobs, you're just kind of thrown into this very immersive experience where it's very easy to make friends all working in these places, working crazy hours, and dealing with the same challenges. Part of that transition was like, I don't know how to meet people. And also, it was my first time living in a city. I was like, Everyone here is so fancy. I'm a dirtbag. I dunno how to do anything here. I can't even afford to go out to dinner, a $12 cocktail is supposed to be cheap.

So I think at first it felt a little rocky, but then once I was starting to get established in places, it made it way easier to build community with people. Your schedule in these jobs is reliable and predictable. I could just see friends after work most nights. The stability definitely allowed for much deeper relationships in some ways, although the relationships that you build during seasonal work, are also very deep in their way. Overall, I think I just had more mental space for friendship because I wasn't so burnt out all the time.

EMERALD: How did moving from seasonal work to a year-round opportunity change your financial situation?

JAMIE: Just the regularity of a monthly check is obviously huge. But it took me probably more years than it should have to get into the mindset of, I am actually getting a salary now. I think during seasonal work I had gotten into the routine of thinking, Well, I don't make enough money to save for retirement or buy a house, so I'm going to work all season and then I'll enjoy in the off-season and spend the money that I made and saved.

So I feel like the first couple of years of my year-round job, I was not saving money at all. So I would say at first my financial situation didn't change that much. It was enough for me to be like, I can buy a Vitamix blender! That was the first thing that I bought myself when I got a year-round job. I live in a fucking duplex now and I have a Vitamix!

But then eventually I kind of came to terms with the idea that if I ever actually want to be able to retire or buy a house or do anything, I need to start setting myself up for that somehow. Even if I don't make that much money, I need to save a little bit at a time. And it turns out that that can snowball really fast. 

EMERALD: Where did you find those budgeting and financial skills? Was that something that you already had, you just had to learn how to apply? Were there particular spaces that you started looking to?

I feel like I made my first budget after listening to an NPR Life Kit podcast about how to budget. And then with my employee assistance program, you got one free financial meeting. So we actually used that and I think we got one month of free financial planning with some guy who lived in Sacramento. Of course, we didn't stick to that budget, but it was a first stab at trying anything. 

Then we started learning about various other online personality type people like Paco de Leon. They have a book now called Finance for the People: Getting a Grip On Your Finances. They talk a lot about how it's not your fault that you're worried about money. There's a bunch of weird structural shit going on. It's actually about institutionalized racism and a bunch of other things that are also working against you. So their resources were very helpful too. And they have a podcast now!

I think maybe one reason we didn't really stick with the Sacramento guy… it was good to get really basic budgeting advice and spreadsheets and stuff from him, but we were not on the same page about lifestyle.  He was like, You make how much money and you were expected raises are to be what? And you weren't employed year-round until recently?!

EMERALD: What does “dream job” mean to you? Has this definition changed since you were 22?

I think the definition or just what it looks like has definitely changed because I willingly made that sacrifice of a cool, really exciting job. What I really wanted was to be close to my partner and still live in a place that I really wanted to live in. But I realized that doesn't necessarily have to be inside a National Park. 

I think the similar throughline that still exists is wanting to do something that feels to me like I'm making an impact on issues that I care about. So I'm still working in that way in that same space, although I'm coming at it from a very different angle now than I was before. And then part of it, it feels increasingly more like, How can I have a stable lifestyle, enough money to do the things that I want to do, and not have to work all the time? 

Sometimes to me dream job feels like wanting to have a bunch of PTO, so I just don't have to work all the time.

“And then part of it, it feels increasingly more like, How can I have a stable lifestyle, enough money to do the things that I want to do, and not have to work all the time?”

EMERALD: If someone in outdoor seasonal work is interested in shifting out, what would you suggest they consider? Why?

You can always go back. It's not like it's, I'm a river guide, and then suddenly you're like, I have a mortgage for 30 years. 

You can just take a year in one job or even take six months and then say, “Fuck it!” and quit. You can always go back. I feel like that's maybe the thing that has kept me and Tyler both going is recognizing that yeah, these are the things that we want right now. We want more stability. We want a salary. We want to own a house. But also we can rent the house out and quit our jobs and go back to being environmental educators or guides or whatever, or go to Switzerland or something! I don't know. Go skiing in Japan for a winter. I guess that's sort of the nice thing about having the stability of year-round job. You can also just save a bunch of money and then just go do what you want anyway. You're not trapped in it.

EMERALD: Imagine you’re eighty years old, retired, living your best life. In three - five sentences, describe the scene.

JAMIE: I think I’m watercoloring at an alpine lake with my cow dog and with my best friend and my partner. After a little skinny dip, I’m just curling up in a sleeping bag and having a whiskey around the fire at night. That's the dream.

Past Non-Seasonal Roles

• Public Lands Campaigner - Oregon Wild

• Membership Manager - Oregon Wild

Past Seasonal Roles

• Seasonal Biological Technician - Alaska - Central Alaska Monitoring Network - NPS

• Americore Vista Volunteer - Science Education Nonprofit - Wrangell Institute for Science and Environment

• Interpretive Park Ranger - Glacier National Park

• Backcountry Ranger - King Range National Conservation Area

Education & Certifications

Humboldt State - Bachelor of Science, Environmental Management and Planning, emphasis Environmental Interpretation

---

A 2023 Update: Read / Watch / Listen recommendations are now available only to paid subscribers. Thank you for supporting this work, your subscription helps me keep the bulk of this newsletter paywall free for all!

Subscribe to see my new favorite book log app and the album I’ve had on repeat all fall (No, not Beyonce, or… not only Beyonce).

If it’s not a good time to subscribe, liking or sharing helps too!