Unseasoned: Trevor Fulton

What happens when an outdoor dream job is no longer your dream?

Welcome to the November Unseasoned interview!

Unseasoned is a series interviewing folks who leave behind outdoor seasonal gigs for 9-5s, entrepreneurship, or other year-round work. You can read more about the premise here.

This month, our interviewee is Trevor Fulton, Executive Director of the University of Idaho Recreation and Wellbeing. Trevor talks about his childhood aspirations to be a banker (typewriter and all), how an outdoor education background influences his leadership approach, and why he returned to seasonal outdoor work as a part-owner of Sundog Expeditions.

As always, I’d love to hear what you thought of this interview. How does your outdoor experience influence your leadership style? Either reply here or find me on IG: @emeraldlafortune

-Emerald

PS: Ask your reps for ceasefire now.

PPS: I’ll be at America Outdoors in Phoenix this December giving a talk based on this newsletter series. Outfitters, I hope to see you there!

PPPS: My writing is featured in the recently published “Catch of a Lifetime” anthology including Joan Wulff, Katie Cahn, Brittany Howard, David James Duncan, and others. Snag a copy here.

Note: This interview may be cut off by some email programs. Click the three-dot icon to see the full interview (it’s still available to all subscribers, free included).

THE INTERVIEW

NAME: Trevor Fulton

LOCATION: Moscow, Idaho

CURRENT ROLE(S):

Executive Director, University of Idaho Recreation and Wellbeing

Outfitter/Guide, Sundog Expeditions

Fishing Guide, White Pine Outfitter

“Drastic change I think can be really good because it refocuses what's really important to you personally as well as professionally.”

EMERALD: Tell me about a great “day in the life” in one of your past outdoor seasonal roles.

TREVOR: My seasonal work was very educational-focused. It's been supported through entities that are more of a year-round cycle. So I didn't have that hard start, hard stop as often throughout my career. I look at it as, ‘How can I help facilitate an experience that's ideally life-changing for a person?’ It doesn't matter if it's educational, educational-focused, or whether it's just a straight recreational vacation of sorts. 

So for me, I think a perfect day, a day in the life of a seasonal role is… you’ve got to wake up in a beautiful place. I think that's very important for setting the tone for the rest of the day. I think you’ve got to go slow, especially in the mornings. I think it lets people be grounded and make that connection on a deeper level, whether it's with people or a place. Ideally, we would learn something together. That's very much my educational background, and that can be as small as, ‘Hey, let's pull out one of the guidebooks and go try to figure out what these wildflowers are that are everywhere,’ or a deep dive into avalanche pits. I just think that in my life, I've always considered myself a lifelong learner. I hope that never changes. I think that's a big part of what makes a day great.

I think another aspect of a great day is doing something really hard as a group and figuring out how to navigate through that combined challenge. I think it brings community and camaraderie that's really hard to get to other places in other ways. And whether that's doing something really hard as a group, or whether that's an activity, a section of whitewater, a certain mountain, a certain ski line, whatever it is, I think that also leads to that magical experience. 

Then, I'm a big believer in reflection. Personal reflection for sure. But group reflection is also a great start to that personal reflection. Then obviously sharing great food with great people and then doing it all again tomorrow.

EMERALD: What was the hardest part of outdoor seasonal work for you?

​​TREVOR: For me personally, it was that it never really ended. We went from winter season to whitewater season to fall, and then wash, rinse, and repeat. You're wrapping up one thing while you're prepping for another. So that grind never stops when you're in an educational setting if you are looking at it in a totality of a year. So that wears on folks if you don't build in that intentional time to really get the downtime.

On the academic side, and a lot of the co-curricular side, summer is a downtime. In outdoor ed, summer is cranking. You're doing just as much in the summer as you're doing during an academic year, so it doesn't really stop. 

Then I think the coming home part is always tough. For me personally, it was not because I was leaving a place I didn't want to leave. It was how life doesn't stop while you're gone, so you're kind of playing catch-up with everything. You're trying to understand what you've missed. You're trying to not rebuild relationships, but you're kind of like, ‘Okay, we paused for a weekend, a week, a month, a season, whatever it was…’, and then you’ve got to pick it back up again and keep going. And that's hard. It's hard on relationships, whether it's romantic, platonic, personal family, whatever.

EMERALD: What were you most worried about when leaving seasonal work? Did those fears actualize?

TREVOR: Working in higher ed, I was set up for success to make that transition for a variety of reasons. One, even though it was seasonal in nature and you were doing the thing a lot in different environments, you still had to go back to the office and do your risk management or hire staff or whatever administrative pieces needed to happen.

I think as far as fears, I think that's just always there. I think that happens with any change or uncertainty. For me, the fear was I built my life around that seasonal cycle, and you kind of worry you're going to lose that lifestyle, you're going to lose those outlets, whether it's an outlet mentally or an outlet, physically. I think you worry you're going to lose community because of it.

And I'll be honest with you, I think all of those things to some degree are true. But I also think that's just the story of life and it's okay. I guess I've just come to the realization that those sorts of things I think are good. Drastic change I think can be really good because it refocuses what's really important to you personally as well as professionally. And just because you might lose parts of those things, rarely are you going to lose all of 'em. I just think that's a good reminder that it is okay to do those things once in a while.

EMERALD: Was your outdoor seasonal work a help or a hindrance in securing your current role?

TREVOR: It built a good foundation. It's definitely different now, but I think just having those sorts of office skill sets built into the work I think was very valuable. Admin is part of a job that nobody really wants to do, but somebody has to do it and it is really important. My role now is really supporting the rest of the department and the staff here. 

We've got a big staff and we've got a lot of students. And I think working in outdoor environments, it's funny how it sets you up for that. You inherently have to figure out how to work with people, ones you get along with or ones don't. When you're in an environment where you're in a tent, stuck in a storm for a week, you've got to figure it out. You figure out that interpersonal side of things. I think it also helps to work in complex environments where you're always pivoting, you're always changing what your outcome was, what the plan is. 

Being okay with uncertainty and change is so valuable in a role like mine or any sort of leadership role where you just roll with it and you just figure out what your today is going to look like based on what's in front of you or what gets thrown at you. It's amazing to me how good outdoor educators and guides are at that, and they don't necessarily realize it until you're put in a situation that's outside of that outdoor environment. The difference in comfort with that dynamic is it's just interesting. 

I think that's one part of a seasonal lifestyle or outdoor ed or just working in outdoor environments in general that we don't talk about enough. I really do think it's a skill set that is highly transferable if you're willing to engage with it and step into it.

EMERALD: How would you describe your current role?

TREVOR: That's a tricky one. I describe it as, we are here to help students create lifelong healthy, active lifestyles and healthy habits. My role specifically is leading the University Recreation and Wellbeing team, keeping the wheels moving forward, and oversight on all the admin and financial background that keeps the place up and running. When you're dealing with 20 professional staff and 200 students and a building and a lot of programs that are housed in that building, it's a lot to juggle. Being comfortable with uncertainty and constant change sets you up for success within a role like this.

EMERALD: How did land in your current role?

TREVOR: Working in an outdoor environment for 20 years, I just was ready for something different. It didn't have to be outside of outdoor, but I needed a change. And that was pre-Covid. And I think Covid really solidified some of that. I think Covid did that for a lot of people, to be honest.

I had been thinking about it and luckily, I had a great job. I could be picky. So I wasn't in a rush, but I knew that if an opportunity opened up I needed to really think about it and engage with it. I have a hard time passing up opportunities. Even if I don't quite understand where it's going to go or how it's going to work, there's something that fires in my brain. For me, it was just the timing was right. 

My predecessor in this role took a new job, and I was previously, prior to them being on campus, I was interim in the role for about nine months. At the time I hated it. And it was like, ‘Well, now I know I don't want to do this.’ But it's amazing what four years and a different group of people can do, as well as just a different mindset for me.

I've been very fortunate. The University of Idaho has been very good to me. Every time I think I'm at a place to leave, a door opens. And from an opportunity perspective, I think that's an important part of life that not a lot of people engage with: you've got to walk through that door even if you don't know where it's going to go.

EMERALD: I meet many employers of seasonal staff who are struggling to retain employees, particularly highly-skilled senior staff. What changes, if any, to the workplace or outdoor industry would have extended your tenure in a seasonal role?

TREVOR: For me, I had the years in and I was ready for something different. So I'm not really sure anything at that point would have kept me. I mean, more responsibility, a little bit different work, more money never hurts. 

As far as advice for others, I guess I'll focus on the people. I don't know where I've heard this, but I really believe that people don't leave jobs because they’re not satisfied or they don't have opportunities. I think they leave the people. You don’t leave a job, you leave the boss. And again, I was very fortunate here that I had great leadership that challenged me in different ways at different times in my career. That's why I'm still here, plain and simple.

You have to help your staff and say, ‘What's next? What do we need to do to get you there? What skills, what experiences, what opportunities, what reflection do you need to do to get you to that next step?’ I just think it's amazing what relationships can be built and in turn, either help somebody stay or sets them up to do great things when they leave.

EMERALD: And look back at you as a manager and the organization as a whole fondly.

TREVOR: Yeah, for sure. Life's just too damn short. And we spend too much time in “work” environments. You have to make it positive, you have to make it more than a job. And that's super hard and it takes a lot of time and focused effort from a leadership role, but it has resounding benefits both in office culture, retention of employees, and I just think a little bit of personal and self-worth. Everybody feels better being in an environment like that.

“You have to help your staff and say, ‘What's next? What do we need to do to get you there? What skills, what experiences, what opportunities, what reflection do you need to do to get you to that next step?’ I just think it's amazing what relationships can be built and in turn, either help somebody stay or sets them up to do great things when they leave.”

EMERALD: How did your family (defined broadly as any intimate familial, romantic, or platonic connections) interact with your seasonal work?

TREVOR: My family has always been supportive of whatever I wanted to do in my life. I always tell this story that when I was a kid very, very young, I wanted to be a banker. I would wear a suit, I would carry around a typewriter - that dates me a little bit! My father was a banker. That's what I saw, that's what I wanted to do. When I was old enough to actually engage in that conversation, the best advice my father ever gave me was, ‘Don't be a banker.’ He knew that that wouldn't work for me. So that really spoke to me and it set me on a path to be like, ‘You know what? I don't have to just do a job that I don't love every day. I can figure out a way to have a career that I actually engage with on a level that is not just, I will do work, you give me a check, see you later.’

EMERALD: Are your relationships different now that you are in a year-round role? If yes, how so?

TREVOR: I have an incredible partner who knew what she was getting into to start. I was already doing these outdoor things when we met. So there wasn't really a huge shift there. If anything, it's kind of been funny of me being more in an administrative role and just being around more. We're both independent people, so the joke around the house is like, ‘Don't you have a trip you need to go do or something?’ But it's tongue in cheek. There's a little bit of truth. But at the same time, I think we both enjoy me being around a little bit more.

EMERALD: How did moving from seasonal work to a year-round opportunity change your financial situation?

TREVOR: Full transparency, more money doesn't hurt. But it also comes with more problems, right?

EMERALD:

We'll link to this song.

TREVOR: Yeah, exactly. In the outdoor industry in general, I think pay equity is getting better, but it still has such a long way to go. When you look at even an environment like higher ed where you have benefits and a job that is stable, you still look at peers across the department or across a division, or across the country. And outdoor professionals are still paid less than everybody else because the perception is, ‘Well, your job is just fun. You just get to go and do things outside all day, so we're going to pay you less for that type of work.’ And the reality is you have to do all those things and you have to do all the administrative stuff, and it's really no different. 

So again, not going to lie. Money helps, but at the same time, you make sacrifices, you exchange money for time, and you might make more, but you don't have as much flexibility or as much time to do other things that at one time were more important.

“If anything, it's kind of been funny of me being more in an administrative role and just being around more. We're both independent people, so the joke around the house is like, ‘Don't you have a trip you need to go do or something?’

EMERALD: You’ve returned to outfitting and seasonal work as a part owner of Sundog Expeditions. Tell us about making that choice - what did you consider when deciding if you wanted to become an outfitter?

TREVOR: I think it goes back to I can't pass up opportunities or if I have to pass 'em up, I better figure out a way to connect somebody else with it. I just think I see life a couple of steps ahead, I guess. And Whitney (Trevor’s partner) tells a great story of the week. I accepted my job here to move into the department head. I came home and we were talking about it, and I said, ‘I think I'm still going to buy Sundog.’ And she looked me like, ‘What are you talking about?’ And family members and friends that I talked to were like, ‘What are you doing?’ But it's one of those things… if you think you can make it work, why not? Brian (one of Trevor’s Business Partners) and I joke that it's our midlife crisis.

EMERALD: Probably still cheaper than a Ferrari.

TREVOR: There's the piece for me that I think is one constant through my life, what I would like to be the one constant through my life, is being able to share magical places with people and show them something that they never thought was real, that just fundamentally changes who they are. These trips are not transactional. I want it to be experience-based. I'm not interested in, well, I mean, we're never going to make any money in this business. That's just how it is up there, right? So I just think that again, the opportunity was like, ‘Wow, that's the place that I can keep making these experiences happen, even if it's on a smaller scale.’

Where we run trips is insanely hard to get to and insanely hard to try to navigate through. So it's just kind of fun. I love the uncertainty of trips up there. There is no plan. Or, there's a plan, but it goes out the door the second you get in the air and you start flying to where you're going. And that's really hard to get in the Lower 48  anymore. So there are a lot of factors for why it just seemed like it was one of those opportunities that couldn't be passed up. And so far so good.

EMERALD: What does “dream job” mean to you? Has this definition changed since you were 22?

TREVOR: What it means to me is, it's a trap. There's no such thing as a dream job. Don't get me wrong. I think it's valuable to have something to strive for in regards to that or sort of an ideal of what you might want, because I think having that idea or focus keeps you moving towards something. I think that process, that drive, it just has to be there for me. It has to be there. 

I think it's a common thread of people who feel unhappy in a current situation is the drive is not there. They don't know what they're going toward. 

But I think it's all work one way or the other, even if it's in an amazing place doing amazing things. It's just different levels of work. For me, my focus has shifted towards, ‘I want to work for me, I want to work for my family. I want to work towards a passion.’  And that's what a dream job is. It's not necessarily a single role. It's more of a huge combination of things.

EMERALD: If someone in outdoor seasonal work is interested in shifting out, what would you suggest they consider? Why?

TREVOR: It goes back to what you were saying with previous interviewees. Just try it. You can always go back to seasonal work in some form or another, or a combination thereof. The transition doesn't have to be drastic where you go from full seasonal to full, not seasonal. There are ways to find that in between. 

I would also just challenge people to really find something that speaks to them in a way that makes 'em a better person, challenges them, helps them grow. And if you can find that a little bit, I think it makes that transition a lot easier because it just adds to the value in an extremely difficult process. The person should ask themselves, ‘How does this intermediate work towards maybe something further in that path?’

Just do it. Just try it. You have to make sacrifices. You can't have all the things. That's just the story of life. You just have to make sacrifices in that transition from seasonal work into a more non-seasonal workplace, but just make sure they're ones that you can live with. Whatever sacrifices are there, really spend some time thinking about that. 

I think that's easier than it sounds once you've got into it a little bit. It sounds pretty heavy, at least to me. It was pretty heavy. But once I thought about it a little bit more and really spent some time being honest with myself, it's like, ‘Nah, I can probably give that up and it's not going to fundamentally change who I am.’ And again, you can always go back to it. You still have those skills.

EMERALD: Imagine you’re eighty years old, retired, living your best life. In three - five sentences, describe the scene.

TREVOR: I would hope at eighty I'm near the end of my journey! So for me… I think I would hope I have few regrets in life. I hope I am surrounded by love. I'm sure my body will be completely worn out by then. So hopefully my mind is still sharp. And I guess hopefully I'm still spending time outside. If my body is worn down, hopefully, I'm sitting in a fishing boat or something, sitting on a park bench, whatever it is. 

Past Non-Seasonal Roles (list title and company/organization):

• Director, Univ of Idaho Outdoor Program

• Northwest River Supplies 

Past Seasonal Roles (list title and company/organization):

• Instructor Trainer, Desert Mountain Medicine

• Swiftwater Rescue Technician Instructor, Swiftwater Safety Institute 

• Instructor, North Idaho College Outdoor Pursuits

• Backcountry Ski Host, Wallowa Alpine Huts

• Conservation Crew Leader, Student Conservation Association

• Landscaper, City of Coeur d’ Alene 

Education & Certifications (Current or expired):

• Wilderness First Responder 

• Avalanche Pro 1 

• Swiftwater Rescue Instructor 

• B.A. Environmental Science

• M.S. Adult, Organizational Learning & Leadership

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